Friends and guests in spiritual deconstruction and reconstruction
who have joined us on the podcast.
JENNIFER GRACE BIRD, PhD - Biblical scholar Jennifer Grace Bird joins Michael in a fascinating conversation about the importance of knowing original meaning and thinking for oneself when it comes to the Bible. Jennifer shares her insights found in her book "Permission Granted: Take the Bible into Your Own Hands" and her forthcoming book, "Marriage in the Bible: What Do the Texts Say?" Folks, you have permission to examine the Bible with an open mind to both critique it and decide for yourself what's inspirational. Learn why it's more respectful to the Bible to approach it this way and some fascinating examples of why the misogynist attitude toward women in the NT is not reflected in the original texts. Find more content and videos of Jennifer's work here: https://www.jennifergracebird.com
MARIA FRENCH - What does post-Christian mean? According to Maria French, it doesn't automatically mean post-Jesus or post-faith. Join Maria and Michael as they discuss why the ideas in Maria's book are so critical to the conversation about deconstruction. The community of post-evangelicals, or even those who are still evangelical but disillusioned, will benefit to hear how Maria's journey offers this lesser known path—outside what we might think a destination would be after conservative Christianity like progressive Christianity, agnosticism, or atheism—but a path for us who still believe in mystery and connection to the spirit of life, but who feel trapped by old ideas and constructs. Learn more about Maria and find her book at www.mariafrancescafrench.com
DAN HENDERSON - Dan joins Michael to discuss his book, Confessions of a Recovering Evangelical, which chronicles his journey of alienation and frustration with traditional evangelical Christianity. Many like Dan are "Nones" and are often traumatized by the transition from a rigid religious world view to a more humanistic open one. They are also usually harassed by family and former friends. Drawing on his many years experience as a former Christian private school teacher, Dan shares how he gave up narrow Bible beliefs, harmful theologies, a gay-bashing attitude, the evangelical behavior-police badge, and racial discrimination to germinate and grow a new, more authentic faith. See danhendersonauthor.com
ROB SCHENCK - Rob Schenck had at least three conversions. One, to Christ, two to a highly politicized faith, and three from the Religious Right back to Jesus' teachings. Michael and Rob have a fascinating conversation about his journey and how evangelicals turned their backs on Jesus' love ethic by justifying outlandish gun rights and using Jane Roe (Norma McCorvey) of "Roe v. Wade" as a trophy in the abortion culture war. You don't want to miss this riveting conversation about guns, the 2nd Amendment vs. the 2nd Commandment, the controversial anti-abortion/pro-life organization Operation Rescue (that Rob and Michael used to be a part of). Learn more at revrobschenck.com
TIM RYMEL - It all begins with a question. For Tim, it was Can you be a Christian and be gay? Tim Rymel spent nearly 20 years emphatically answering no to that question. Born into the fundamentalist, Pentecostal Christian faith, he went into the ministry at 15-years-old, pleading with God to make him straight. Hear him share his incredible story on the podcast and his really important critique of the “Ex-gay” movement and “conversion therapy.” Check out his two books that address these issues: Going Gay: My Journey from Evangelical Christian Minister to Self-acceptance, Love, Life, and Meaning and Rethinking Everything: When Faith & Reality Don’t Make Sense.
J. STEVEN PAUL, author of “In Search of Christian Origins: A Timeline of the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.” , joins me on the podcast to share a long, fascinating, eye-opening historical journey. There is the accepted, often-repeated version of Christian history—and then there’s the real story. Steve Paul uncovers the little-known details of the world’s largest religion. He has documented this fascinating history that reveals Christianity’s roots, its often-unknown and surprising traditions, and its influence on the world today. Hear how Steve got to the point in his conservative Christian deconstruction, where he began to study the origins of the Christian faith and popular theology that led him to document this incredible Timeline. Listen to the conversation!
When CHRIS KRATZER left his Lutheran roots, he became a pastor of evangelical and Southern Baptist churches for 21 years. Later, he got caught up in the intoxicating church growth movement. Eventually, after a long road of self examination and realization, he had a radical change of heart and mind that led him to walk away from it all. Hear Michael and Chris discussing Chris's evolution and revelations that showed him how God is portrayed in most evangelical churches--as a hating, violent, temperamental, murderous, codependent, and exclusive deity. And how he came to write, “Stupid Shit Heard in Church: And the Truth that Will Wipe You Clean.”
JOSHUA HARRIS became famous at 22 in evangelical circles after writing a book called, "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" that popularized the concept of "courting" as a "Christian" alternative to dating. Harris, a product of the conservative Christian homeschool movement, later became a senior pastor of a Sovereign Grace Ministries mega church (formerly People of Destiny). After embracing what appeared to him as an exciting church movement, he discovered its dark side. Observing spiritual abuse, manipulation, controlling leaders, and sexual abuse lawsuits, he ultimately became disillusioned, left the church, admitted his mistakes, and then announced he no longer considered himself a Christian. Join Michael and Josh in a fascinating conversation on how and why Josh changed his mind and what brought him to having deconstructed evangelicalism and wondering if faith should just be about loving your neighbor. Learn more at joshharris.com.
BECKY GARRISON - Feather ruffler and author, Becky Garrison, joins Michael to discuss American colonial history, Christian and other forms of satire, examples of secular spirituality in the Pacific Northwest, and certain virtues that we sorely need today. Becky is an investigative journalist who writes books on religious deconstruction. She's a former writer for the Christian satire magazine, The Wittenburg Door (you gotta check it out if you haven’t heard of it!). Becky has a fascinating life story and cites some great historical lessons learned in her latest book, Roger Williams' Little Book of Virtues. Williams is a distant relative of Becky and an American religious reformer of the 1600s who got kicked out by the Puritans. He was way ahead of his time in his fair and just treatment of indigenous people and ideas around freedom of conscious and separation of church & state.
KEITH GILES - Author of the best-selling “Jesus Un” series of books, including Jesus Unbound: Liberating the Word of God from the Bible, Keith joins Michael in a lively conversation about spiritual deconstruction and reconstruction, Keith's journey out of a Southern Baptist and Vineyard ministry, and a more authentic and historical way of viewing Jesus, the Bible, and Church. Keith was formerly an ordained minister who walked away from organized church over a decade ago to start a home fellowship that gave away 100% of the offering to the poor in the community. Today, he and his wife, Wendy, are part of Peace Catalyst International and Keith is a part of the Heretic Happy Hour Podcast.
FRANK SCHAEFFER - New York Times bestselling author, Frank Schaeffer joins Michael to discuss his journey out of evangelicalism and his newest book, Fall in Love, Have Children, Stay Put, Save the Planet, Be Happy. The book offers a passionate political, social, and lifestyle “blueprint” for changes millions of us know are needed to rebalance our work lives with thriving relationships. Michael and Frank discuss a new way of looking at the world that aligns with history and science and focuses on what matters most: the priority of relationships, connections, community, love, caring for the earth, and empowering the poor and marginalized--all things that Jesus taught and his earliest followers emulated. .
DAVID ARTMAN - Author, podcaster, and retired pastor David Artman joins Michael to discuss his book Grace Saves All: The Necessity of Christian Universalism. As a child, the first time David attended a church, after he walked out he told his mom, “That place is scary. I’m not going back.” Why? Because this church taught the doctrine of hell with a vengeance. As a young adult he saw a softer and intellectual side of Christianity in the writings of CS Lewis. But the doctrine of eternal damnation still loomed large. Listen to his story and the biblical, historical, and logical evidence he cites to make the case that universal grace is necessary: David Artman on the Necessity of Christian Universalism.
BART CAMPOLO - When Bart Campolo announced he no longer believed in God, it rocked his father's and family's world, as well as shocked the wider evangelical movement. Yet it also opened a new opportunity--to openly discuss the hard questions and problems with modern Christianity, particularly evangelicalism, but to do so in a respectful way. That's what Bart and his famous evangelical father, Tony, did. In their book, Why I Left, Why I Stayed, and the film, Leaving My Father's Faith, they foster a safe space to agree to disagree agreeably about faith and Christianity. In that spirit, Michael and Bart talk about how Bart evolved out of belief in God, why he calls himself a humanist, and what matters most in living one's life, whether one is a believer or not. Listen to Bart Campolo on Why I Left My Father’s Faith and learn more about Bart at bartcampolo.org
MARTIN PROZESKY - Martin is a research fellow on the faculty of theology and religion at he University of the Free State in South Africa. He studied theology at Rhodes and Oxford Universities and at the former Episcopal Theological School in Cambridge, Massachusetts. Author of six books, Martin shares his experiences growing up in the shadow of apartheid in South Africa and how he spiritually evolved to the point of researching and writing about Jesus as an ethical revolutionary. On the podcast, he shares with Michael his conclusions in his book, Honest to Goodness: A Spiritual and Ethical Odyssey, on evaluating conservative and liberal Christianity and an exciting idea called The Global Goodness Project. Find his books here: Author Martin Prozesky
DR. KIM O’REILLY - Kim is a professor of cultural and diversity studies and a teacher of conflict resolution, who grew up as a missionary kid in South America. So many are torn between their love for someone who is gay, and accepting or welcoming them, in the face of strongly-held beliefs against homosexuality. On the podcast, Kim shares how people can address the dichotomy of love and condemnation, sincerely expressed by Christians – and understand the pain experienced by gays and lesbians. Learn more about her at www.interculturalsolutions.net
DR. DAVID SMITH - David is a philosopher and religion scholar at the Osher Lifelong Learning Institute at the University of Washington (UW). David grew up as a missionary kid (MK) in the world of fundamentalist Christianity. He gradually moved away from that paradigm and became a religious progressive/skeptic but not an atheist. On my podcast, David shares his journey out of fundamentalism, his insights into comparative religion, and how to talk to each other about religion in a respectful way. I especially loved the philosophical techniques he shares that help people more easily deconstruct from evangelical or fundamentalist Christianity. Learn more at www.beliefsandethics.com
WENDY FRANSCISCO - Wendy is a musician, writer, editor, animal-lover, mother, and self-described love heretic who was part of the 1970s/80s Jesus Movement. She is married to Don Francisco another popular musician from that era. She once had a website called "Mythbusters" that debunked common myths associated with conservative Christianity. On Love Heretic, she shares about deconstructing out of evangelicalism and pursuing faith absent abusive theology and judgmentalism, which can also show up on the spiritual left. Hear her on my podcast!
CHRISTY BERGHOEF - After meeting author Christy Berghoef and her husband Bryan at the Wild Goose Festival, I was fascinated when I heard she does workshops on Common Good Communications. Learned from lessons coming out of conservative "Reformed" Christianity, she developed material on common good, authentic curiosity, and identifying and avoiding toxic tribalism, which sadly is too common in our current religious and political climate. At the Spiritual Brewpub she shares her vision of focusing on common good in social intercourse.
JULIE ANNE SMITH - Julie Anne was once sued by her pastor for a half million dollars! Why? Because she uncovered spiritual abuse in her evangelical church. She later launched the Spiritual Sounding Board, a safe haven for exposing abuse, such as patriarchal theology, sex-abuse coverups in churches, domestic violence, and abuse among the Homeschool Movement. Learn the roots of spiritual abuse she uncovers on my podcast.
KEVIN MILLER - A documentary film producer, Kevin Miller, embarked on a journey to question, research, and rethink evangelical and fundamentalist theology. That led him to write and produce two noteworthy and provocative films, Hellbound? and JESUSA. They challenge all Christians and society to embrace a new paradigm on addressing evil through peacemaking, rather than retribution, violence, and threats of eternal damnation. Hear our insightful conversation on my podcast.
KATHEY ESCOBAR - Kathy Escobar is an unconventional pastor and a talented writer, speaker, advocate, rule-breaker, and dreamer. Author of Faith Shift: Finding Your Way Forward When Everything You Believe is Coming Apart, she’s been a great support to the faith shifting community. If you feel like a spiritual refugee, a church burnout, or a freedom seeker, you’ll want to listen to the podcast I did with Kathy.
MICHAEL HARDIN - Michael is a gifted speaker, author, and “Dude of Theology,” an appellation he wears as a mark of distinction. He’s the Co-Founder and Executive Director of Preaching Peace with a passion for theology, church history, biblical studies, and the work of Rene Girard. He has been a hospital chaplain, a failed pastor, and a distinguished guest on The Spiritual Brewpub Podcast. We hit it off when I found out he was a fan of the 70s alternative rock band, Yes.
SUSAN COTTRELL - Susan Cottrell founded FreedHearts after finding herself having to decide between the evangelical church and her LGBTQ daughter. In FreedHearts, she and her husband Rob come alongside parents to help them understand their lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender children, keep their kids safe, and their family strong. They help those in the LGBTQ community deal with family, religious and community wounds and find chosen family. They help those in the non-affirming church be more inclusive. Hear Susan on my podcast.
BARBARA SYMONS - I thoroughly enjoyed interviewing Barbara on my podcast after I read her eye-opening book, Escaping Christianity and Finding Christ, about her journey out of evangelical/charismatic Christianity into a mystic awareness of Jesus. She was indoctrinated over decades into a "schizophrenic Christianity" and ultimately went through a sometimes painful, but an incredibly freeing deprogramming process.
JULIE FERWERDA - Author, all-around hell raiser, and guest on my podcast, Julie Ferwerda, is best known for her book, Raising Hell: Christianity’s Most Controversial Doctrine Put Under Fire. We met ten years ago when she commented on my first blog and we quickly discovered our similar journeys deconstructing conservative Christianity, including the doctrine of eternal damnation. See Raising Hell Book Group.